This article is about EV charging stations in strata high rise and apartment buildings.
Table of Contents:
- QUESTION: Can we place an EV charging station in a visitor car parking space? Alternatively, can the body corporate buy or lease a lot owner’s parking space for EV charging?
- QUESTION: If a lot owner’s enclosed garage has an individually metered GPO point, can they trickle feed their electric vehicle with the Level One 3-pin plug supplied with the car?
- QUESTION: The chairman of another body corporate has told me their insurance won’t cover a fire in the building if it is started by an electric vehicle. Is this correct?
- QUESTION: Our body corporate is looking at installing an EV charging station near the main switchboard. How do we charge the usage back to users?
- QUESTION: Can the body corp have a contract with an individual lot regarding power supply to a car charging port without disclosing the contract, or any approval from lot owners?
- QUESTION: Having just ordered a Tesla, I submitted an application to the body corporate to install an EV charger in our exclusive use area basement carpark. My request has been knocked back. We have a Standard CMS. Is my only option to pursue the matter through QCAT?
- ARTICLE: Principal Scheme Committee Decision Leads to Death by Electrocution in Strata
- QUESTION: Is there any indication that Body Corporate insurance will increase due to EV fire danger in strata car parks?
- QUESTION: We are investigating EV charging and solar for our building. What is the best way to structure the installation of infrastructure to come up with a cost effective solution?
- QUESTION: I believe our high rise should be getting ahead of the EV charging curve. We have questions regarding EV charging and EV parking.
Question: Can we place an EV charging station in a visitor car parking space? Alternatively, can the body corporate buy or lease a lot owner’s parking space for EV charging?
Answer: Decreasing visitor car spaces could potentially violate your development approval.
Visitor spaces are commonly designated as common property and are typically incorporated into your development consent, often with a minimum requirement. Decreasing these spaces could potentially violate your development approval (DA).
If contemplating adjustments to a lot owner’s parking space, engage in transparent communication to discuss the proposal, potentially negotiating lease terms or obtaining consent for installation. It’s important to note that altering the use of a private space to public may necessitate local government approvals.
Altogether Group
E: aparker@altogethergroup.com.au
This post appears in the March 2024 edition of The QLD Strata Magazine.
Question: If a lot owner’s enclosed garage has an individually metered GPO point, can they trickle feed their electric vehicle with the Level One 3-pin plug supplied with the car?
A recent article QLD: Electric vehicles states:
“Most of the time, owners will require the consent of the body corporate to install an EV charger on common property. There may be a by-law regulating the installation or it may be considered as an ‘improvement’ to common property.”
If a lot owner’s enclosed garage has an individually metered GPO point, can they trickle feed their electric vehicle with a Level One 3-pin plug supplied with the car? This requires no improvement to common property. Essentially, it is no different to plugging in a vacuum cleaner to clean the car. What situations aren’t covered by ‘most of the time’?
Answer: The situation is typically considered as falling within the rights of the lot owner.
In the scenario you described, where a lot owner possesses a private enclosed garage with an individual General Power Outlet (GPO) point that is metered independently, the situation is typically considered as falling within the rights of the lot owner. In such cases, where the installation does not involve any modification or improvement to the common property, it is akin to plugging in any other electrical device, such as a vacuum cleaner.
The mention of ‘most of the time’ in the initial statement refers to the general practice where owners seek consent from the body corporate for installing an EV charger on common property. However, individual enclosed garages with their own metered GPO points often fall outside common property regulations.
It’s important to note that circumstances may vary, and specific cases could involve unique considerations. If there are any specific by-laws or regulations applicable to your property, it’s advisable to review them to ensure compliance. Additionally, situations that might fall outside of ‘most of the time’ could include instances where there are restrictive by-laws, unique property arrangements, or specific considerations outlined by the body corporate.
Altogether Group
E: eaustin@altogethergroup.com.au
This post appears in the February 2024 edition of The QLD Strata Magazine.
Question: The chairman of another body corporate has told me their insurance won’t cover a fire in the building if it is started by an electric vehicle. Is this correct?
I have just been told by the chairman of another body corporate that their insurance won’t cover a fire in the building if it was started by an electric vehicle. I don’t know the precise details, but is this correct? It is a worrying time, given the growth in electric vehicles. Our body corporate has received enquiries from owners about installing electic vehicle charging facilities. How concerned should we be?
Answer: This is a potential “emerging risk” that may, in the future, attract policy exclusions, conditions, premium loadings or higher excesses in the future if insurers suffer major losses.
In the wake of a global shift towards sustainable transportation, Australia is witnessing a significant increase in electric vehicle (EV) usage. With governmental policies encouraging this shift, it’s projected that by 2040, all new vehicle sales will be electric. But what does this mean for strata insurance?
We’ve observed that most insurers have yet to implement specific exclusions or conditions related to electric vehicles and charging stations. For our clients, this means there are currently no notable insurance restrictions or compliance issues regarding EV storage or charging station installation.
While the insurance industry hasn’t yet been significantly impacted, potential risks associated with EVs are on the rise:
- Fire Hazards: Incidents of fires from EV charging and storage.
- Structural Integrity: Some EVs may be heavier than traditional vehicles, potentially affecting building structures.
- Electrical Safety: The high voltages required for EV charging pose electrocution risks.
- Malicious Actions: Risks of theft or damage to charging stations.
These factors represent ’emerging risks’ that could lead to future policy exclusions, premium adjustments, or increased excesses if major losses occur. Notwithstanding, strata buildings should be aware that these conditions may evolve, leading to possible policy exclusions, adjustments in premiums, or increased excesses, especially if significant losses are experienced by strata insurers.
To safeguard against risks, we recommend strata buildings consider the following:
- Adhere to all regulations and manufacturer guidelines for charging stations.
- Strategically place charging stations to mitigate fire risks and ensure surrounding areas are clear of combustibles.
- Implement and maintain appropriate fire protection measures.
- Store cables and equipment safely.
- Regularly maintain charging stations as per manufacturer specifications.
- Clearly define responsibilities regarding vehicles and charging stations to avoid legal disputes.
- Employ qualified contractors to ensure electrical systems can support the added load.
As the EV landscape evolves, Strata Insurance Solutions remains committed to providing our clients with the latest information and tailored insurance solutions. Stay ahead of the curve and ensure your strata is prepared for the electric vehicle revolution.
Tyrone Shandiman
Strata Insurance Solutions
E: tshandiman@iaa.net.au
P: 1300 554 165
This information is of a general nature only and neither represents nor is intended to be personal advice on any particular matter. Shandit Pty Ltd T/as Strata Insurance Solutions strongly suggests that no person should act specifically on the basis of the information in this document, but should obtain appropriate professional advice based on their own personal circumstances. Shandit Pty Ltd T/As Strata Insurance Solutions is a Corporate Authorised Representative (No. 404246) of Insurance Advisenent Australia AFSL No 240549, ABN 15 003 886 687.
This post appears in the October 2023 edition of The QLD Strata Magazine.
Question: Our body corporate is looking at installing an EV charging station near the main switchboard. How do we charge the usage back to users?
Answer: We provide a few options plus their pros and cons for charging usage of EV chargers back to users in an apartment building.
There are a few ways the body corporate could charge the usage of the EV charging station back to users.
- The body corporate can install charging station metering equipment. These will record the exact amount of kWh consumed by each vehicle and can charge it back to the individual owners. This method requires a significant initial investment in metering equipment but provides the most accurate billing.
- Assign a flat rate or scale rate fee specific to each vehicle or owner. This method is much simpler to implement as it involves minimal to no setup cost. However, it is less accurate than metering and can result in over or undercharging users.
- Install access control measures such as swipe cards, keypads, or RFID systems on the charging station to prevent unauthorised use. Controlling access would allow the body corporate to charge a one-time fee or bill a common area usage fee with usage thus charged back to the offender or shared amongst all owners if unauthorised access is detected.
It is important to consider the total load demand on the building when installing an EV charging station to ensure the station doesn’t exceed the available power or overload the main switchboard. It is also important to consider the potential for future requests for additional charging stations and plan accordingly to ensure the switchboard and infrastructure can support these extra loads.
Finally, It’s important to consult with professionals such as electricians or energy consultants to ensure the charging station installation and billing system are appropriate for your community. Additionally, discuss these options with the members of your body corporate and gather their feedback. The feedback can help you determine the most suitable charging method for your specific situation.
Sarah Price
Altogether Group
E: sprice@altogethergroup.com.au
This post appears in the June 2023 edition of The QLD Strata Magazine.
Question: Can the body corp have a contract with an individual lot regarding power supply to a car charging port without disclosing the contract, or any approval from lot owners?
Can the body corp have a contract with an individual lot regarding power supply to a car charging port without disclosing the contract, or any approval from lot owners? As the building has mains power and solar panels, the Committee hasn’t disclosed how they would work out a contract like this. Who is responsible for the decision making since all lot owner’s payments contribute to the common property power bill?
Answer: It’s a crazy brave body corporate that enters into an agreement with a lot owner, or third party, without approval.
Fortuitously, a lot of this question is easy to answer – a body corporate cannot do anything (or virtually nothing) without making a decision. That is, in the form of a resolution passed at a general meeting or by the committee.
It’s a crazy brave body corporate that enters into an agreement with a lot owner, or third party, without approval – because what is being banked on is that approval will be given later, by the lot owners or the committee.
So, what sort of decisions may be required about these issues? Well, common property power points, supply power to the common property. Reasonable, intermittent use of them, for activities normally associated with the use of the common property is what would be expected; e.g. plugging in a phone charger when using the BBQ to ensure that Spotify keeps the tunes coming as you flip your burgers. That 500mA draw at 12v for 4 hours in the Pool / BBQ area is going to cost about as much as a single Tic Tac.
Conversely, hooking up your EV at 7.4kW per hour, overnight, in the common property basement would leave your body corporate with very little change left over from a folding lobster.
Climate consciousness is no excuse for theft, so locking up common property power points being (ab)used for EV charging is pretty reasonable I would say; whether a formal decision has been made or not (and one should be made, in due course, for completeness).
I’d love to hear the disgruntled lot owner’s argument on this one i.e. ‘Adjudicator, the body corporate locked up a power point that I was using to charge my EV in the basement. I pay my levies why can’t I use the power point?’
Well, my exalted eco warrior, because your neighbours are contributing to the cost of charging your car, through their levies. They don’t know about it and I suspect they don’t think they should have to subsidise your costs to charge your car!
As for the supply of utility services to a lot owner, a body corporate can do that subject to the lot owner’s agreement and provided that the body corporate is covering costs and not running a business.
The issues usually complained of is that one lot owner is getting preferential treatment, because they are getting the ‘cheap’ solar power during the day, or they get access to the limited infrastructure to the detriment of other owners.
Given the feed in tariff’s these days for solar, any body corporate with half a brain would be trying to sell any excess that would otherwise be exported back to the grid, if not consumed, at a rate equal to the reference rate, less an appropriate discount.
The ‘profits’ from this arrangement being rolled back into paying off the solar PV installation, and maintenance etc.
As for preferential access to power points, the solution is usually to bake a new, bigger, cake rather than fighting over the crumbs of the old one. Once that is done, the body corporate recovers the costs of the new infrastructure in the metered electricity supplied to the charging points.
To this owner I would say, jump in and search your body corporate records, find out what is going on, then propose some committee resolutions and go to a committee meeting. In other words, get informed, then get involved.
Michael Kleinschmidt
Bugden Allen Graham Lawyers
E: michael.kleinschmidt@bagl.com.au
P: 07 5406 1280
This post appears in the December 2022 edition of The QLD Strata Magazine.
Question: Having just ordered a Tesla, I submitted an application to the body corporate to install an EV charger in our exclusive use area basement carpark. My request has been knocked back. We have a Standard CMS. Is my only option to pursue the matter through QCAT?
Answer: Any lot owner can challenge a decision of the body corporate, but there may be a better way!
Firstly, well done for taking the leap into the next generation of transportation. Secondly, you should get legal advice, tailored to your situation.
Like most questions, this one involves so many variables that all I can offer is a ‘hypothetical’; that is, what follows is a constructed set of facts to illustrate some of the principles.
So, to the facts of my hypothetical; the area into which a charger is to be installed is an exclusive use area in a basement. Power is not too far away in the basement area, but has to cross some other exclusive use areas to get to the charger. Finally, the by-laws say nothing relevant.
In this scenario, using the principles in the Supreme Court case of Katsikalis, the lot owner needs
- authority to install and
- authority to keep the improvement in place.
If the exclusive use by-law contains a permission to install, then that is all that is needed for (a), for the charger. If not, then approval under s193 of the Standard Module would be required. If the charger is under $3000 (GST inc) installed, then committee approval is enough. Otherwise an ordinary resolution will be required. Of course, that is just for the charger.
For the cables to bring the power to the charger, an improvement is being made to the common property for the benefit of a lot; s187 of the Standard Module. If the cables are less than $3000, they don’t detract from the appearance of the common property and installation of them is not likely to promote a breach of the owners duties as an occupier, then approval can be given by the committee. Otherwise, an ordinary resolution is required.
Next, to satisfy (b), the statutory easement in s115O of the Land Title Act permits the electricity cables and the charger to stay in the common property once they are installed but only if the car is being used as a backup battery for the owners unit. Why? Because the statutory easement is in favour of a lot, against the common property, for supply of utility services (electricity) to the lot – not the supply of electricity to the common property. Now, of course, power can flow both ways if the set up permits it – the car can be charged or the car can discharge and supply power to the lot. If the supply is one way – lot to car – then the compliance pathway (and winning any challenge to a refusal for approval) becomes very hard.
On the other hand, if the charging arrangement is ‘tweaked’ so that the car is being used as a backup battery for the unit and the proposed cabling arrangement can be practically made to suit this (with cables, meters, credit arrangements etc), then the compliance pathway is much more well-trodden. It would, in my view, be very hard for a body corporate to refuse approval for such an arrangement, where, for example, the car is being charged during the day at work (from solar panels), driven home at night, connected to the charger which has a direct link back into the circuit for the lot (and is ‘behind’ the electricity meter for the lot), all of the cabling, charger and installation is top notch and performed by quality licences tradesman at the lot owners cost.
Of course, the astute reader is saying ‘but what about running the power cables through other lot owner’s exclusive use areas?’ – to that, in my view, an argument can be made that the statutory provisions about improvements and utility infrastructure easements take priority over the exclusive use by-law, which operates only as a covenant between lot owners and not a statute or statutory instrument.
In direct answer to this readers question, any lot owner can challenge a decision of the body corporate, but in my view, the battle is won or lost before the first shot is fired – the ‘set up’ is crucial, and too many lot owners seek help after things have gone the wrong way, which at best means a harder job for their lawyer (read – it costs more) and at worst means the whole process has to start again (read – it costs even more again).
Michael Kleinschmidt
Stratum Legal
E: info@stratumlegal.com.au
P: 07 5406 1282
This post appears in the August 2022 edition of The QLD Strata Magazine.
Article: Principal Scheme Committee Decision Leads to Death by Electrocution in Strata
This recount has been submitted by a QLD lot owner with concerns about the way EV adoption has been managed in their building.
Not the perfect news headline to appreciate the value of any strata community, however, these may well be the words a Coroner determines appropriate to describe a terribly tragic circumstance in the event it happens.
A Brisbane Principal Scheme Committee has authorised owners to charge their electric vehicles using an untagged tested power lead laying on the floor of a large strata communities parking garage while options are explored to have common EV charges installed.
The QLD Electrical Safety Act [ESA] is directed at eliminating the human cost to individuals, families and the community of death, injury and destruction that can be caused by electricity.
On 26 February 2022, the retail level car park sprinklers of this complex triggered when a vehicle [not an EV] erupted into flames, resulting in a substantial amount of water pouring into the underground basement car park.
Car Park fires happen and although they can be a rare occurrence, this is undoubtedly why the installation of fire safety sprinklers is mandated.
The following photos of our car parking area says it all.
This post appears in Strata News #579.
Question: Is there any indication that Body Corporate insurance will increase due to EV fire danger in strata car parks?
Answer: Currently insurers are not charging extra premium for increased fire danger due to electrical vehicles in car parks.
Currently insurers are not charging extra premium for increased fire danger due to electrical vehicles in car parks.
We suspect this may happen if there is a major event due to the vehicles. This could cause insurers to review their premiums and underwriting criteria.
Tyrone Shandiman
Strata Insurance Solutions
E: tshandiman@iaa.net.au
P: 07 3899 5129
This information is of a general nature only and neither represents nor is intended to be personal advice on any particular matter. Shandit Pty Ltd T/as Strata Insurance Solutions strongly suggests that no person should act specifically on the basis of the information in this document, but should obtain appropriate professional advice based on their own personal circumstances. Shandit Pty Ltd T/As Strata Insurance Solutions is a Corporate Authorised Representative (No. 404246) of Insurance Advisenent Australia AFSL No 240549, ABN 15 003 886 687.
This post appears in Strata News #559.
Question: We are investigating EV charging and solar for our building. What is the best way to structure the installation of infrastructure to come up with a cost effective solution?
I am an owner in a strata that is billed for electricity via Altogether Solutions operating under the ‘Exemption Scheme’. We are investigating EV charging but have realised there is a lot more to this exercise e.g. smart load management.
Could Altogether Solutions (AS) setup something along the lines of a financial Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV) to finance, pay interest and recover the costs of upgrading our building infrastructure to prepare for electric vehicle charging and solar in our building?
Answer: It’s best to work out what’s the lowest cost structure to put in place, depending on the community.
There are no types of arrangements that we don’t consider. We absolutely would want to work with a client that’s looking for an EV or solar type solution to help them find a solution that is tailor suited to that body corporate. An SPV is a very specific type of arrangement, and it may be the most cost effective arrangement but what we will always look to do is to work out what’s the lowest cost structure to put in place depending on the community.
Typically, the main input drivers to things like cost of installing EV infrastructure and existing buildings are really the building size. How many EV chargers they want, the existing infrastructure installation, whether that needs to be upgraded or not and of course, how big the carpark is. You can’t run an extension lead out, you’ve got to instal this additional infrastructure. So, it is dependant on the number of lots that are available. It is dependant on how many EV chargers they want, and dependant on what the current infrastructure is. That will dictate the cost. Once we know what the cost is, and as every site is very, very unique, we can work on some type of funding arrangement.
What we typically look to do is fund the infrastructure ourselves, but not through an SPV. What we would look to do is say you’ve got your electricity rates. There’s a delta between what the market is charging and what the cost is in an embedded network. We always aim to make sure the customer is getting the best possible deal and far lower than what they can get on the on the market. If we can take an amount of that delta, it could be a relatively small amount, and spread that over a period of time, essentially that can be used to fund these infrastructure upgrades.
The reason that’s attractive to body corporates is because it means they don’t have to raise special levies. We will fund it, and we’ll recover that cost over a term from the users themselves. It’s always a user pays system. That’s always advantageous because user pays always gives you far more efficient outcomes. When the users paying for their infrastructure, there will always use that infrastructure far more wisely. If the body corporate or an investor or owner, or a special levy has to be raised to pay for infrastructure, people’s usage tends to be a little bit more ad hoc, so you don’t always get the best commercial outcome.
Drew McKillican
Altogether Group
E: DMcKillican@altogethergroup.com.au
This post appears in the March 2021 edition of The QLD Strata Magazine.
Question: I believe our high rise should be getting ahead of the EV charging curve. We have questions regarding EV charging and EV parking.
Our complex is a 21 unit high rise like many others with single-storey car parking below the building. I believe we should be trying to get ahead of the EV charging curve and have questions regarding EV charging and EV parking.
- With the danger of battery fires associated with electric vehicles, can EV’s be banned by BC Committee from parking in the car park.
- If the BC allows EV’s to park and recharge in the car park, does the BC pay for the engineering review to advise size of allowable charger outlets for every unit. I believe we must supply all units if we supply one, and if so, would the BC be responsible for the ‘skeleton’ ducting and distribution board, and each owner responsible for the cost of the electrical installation.
- Could a couple of open area visitor’s car parks be converted, (with council approval~ we have 8 visitor spots for 21 units), to be serviced by a commercial provider for EV charger bays for EV owners.
Answer: As many BC’s are shifting towards investment in renewables and a net zero future, as part of this journey we must ensure our buildings can accommodate EV charging into the future.
Should Body Corporate be Concerned About EV Battery Fires in Car Parks?
Whilst the exact data is quite early on this hot topic, recent studies into the North American market by Tesla, and based on the data from the National Fire Protection Association – have found EV’s 11 times less likely to catch fire compared to petrol (ICE) cars.
Given the popularity with the EV revolution as the new kid on the block, any incident involving EV’s grab a lot of attention and is often exaggerated and scrutinised heavily in the media. Whilst there have been EV fires, there are also petrol car fires every day of the week, yet we hear very little in the media about these. It’s also worth noting that battery technology with EV’s is in a constant state of evolution and new battery chemistry is seeing an enormous reduction in volatile compounds used.
Therefore, with reference to the risk in car parks, EV’s in fact pose a lower risk when one may consider for many years we have parked petrol cars, have diesel backup generators and have on site large electrical transformers often oil filled or featuring volatile components.
Banning EV’s from basement car parks would see – in time – virtually all vehicles parked out in the street without the right to their own car park or charging facilities.
Who pays for the engineering review to advise size of allowable charger outlets for each unit?
The key here is a strategic pathway that clearly outlines responsibilities of the BC and that of the apartment owner. This is created by an independent assessment relevant to your complex.
For example, many (most) strata’s it is often impractical to run an EV charger off their own apartment power supply or meter due to physical distance, or not enough power capacity is available. This also means that all the EV chargers cannot be optimised to be managed as a group and take advantage of benefits like cheaper tariff’s, on site renewables, consistent billing and a unified maintenance program etc
The best way for a strata to manage EV charging is engaging a holistic strategy by an EV infrastructure specialist. This identifies the BC responsibilities for ensuring the building common power supply and ultimately it’s backbone of switchboards, distribution boards, cable containment pathways and a crucial EV energy management system is put in place to enable 100% of residents of access to EV charging. This ensures fairness across all owners and futureproofs the building and maps out an easy regimented process (or by-law) for the adoption of EV chargers by residents.
The apartment owner then is responsible for purchasing a pre-defined EV charging package set by the BC which often includes the charger, circuit protection and the electrical works to run it back to the EV distribution board. The resident or BC may also be responsible for the ongoing operational software fees associated with the system administration or billing. Size and model of EV charger must be compatible and appropriate for the power supply, management system and billing platforms installed in the building.
BC’s should be forward planning now to provide the required upgrades to their sites and carving a policy to avoid ad-hoc procurement of EV chargers by residents. If residents are left to do their own thing, put simply the building infrastructure will not cope when EV adoption increases.
Converting visitor car parks to EV charger bays
This is possible, and companies such as Chargefox and JET Charge can provide this shared charging service, which is a common starting point for many BC’s if they can afford the space. However, it is a short-term measure that ultimately will give away to residents demanding their own charger in their own car bay due to aspects such as running out of space when more cars are EV’s, security concerns and the consumption of visitor bays. If you invested in a brand-new shiny EV, would you be happy parking your car overnight, every night, in a public shared space to charge up – as opposed to your own personal secured car bay?
The EV revolution is a generational change with many new learnings associated with ownership and how we manage the uptake in our homes and businesses. It’s important to understand how EV drivers charge their vehicle too which is more akin to a mobile phone being topped up regularly, compared to a petrol car where it’s a once a week thing, so regular access to a charger is important.
What we do know however is this is happening, faster than we think and that 90% of all EV charging in Australian cities will happen at home overnight or at work during the day.
As many BC’s are doing with solar and shifting towards investment in renewables and a net zero future, part of this journey is we must ensure our buildings can accommodate EV charging into the future.
Mark Jeisman
JET Charge
E: mark@jetcharge.com.au
P: 1300 856 328
This post appears in Strata News #533.
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D Park says
Is there any laws in Qld stating that a BC must install Ev chargers or an electrical backbone in an apartment block within a specified time frame?
Also if say 6 out of 106 apartments own electric cars should the rest of the owners be expected to pay for the electrical backbone as well?
Frank Hemeter says
“We are unaware of any strata insurer who has added exclusions to their policies for fires originating from electric vehicles. From an insurance perspective, there are currently no restrictions/compliance issues to raise with body corporates for storing electric vehicles or installing charging stations.”
This is simply wrong.
No insurer has added the exclusion for EVs, as existing exclusions apply. All buildings, other than single dwelling houses, associated out buildings and farm sheds, approved prior to NCC 2019 (adopted 1 May 2019) should technically not contain EV charging stations unless they are housed in a fire rated enclosure.
Checkout what left of the slab supporting the building after an EV fire
https://www.promat.com/en/construction/news/193412/fire-safety-electric-charging/
Darryle Knowles says
It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who buy an EV then grizzle because the BC hasn’t or won’t install EV charging facilities.[….removed by admin….] And when they find out THEY have to pay for the cost of the charging station and its installation they complain as if all owners should contribute to their whim.
Sarah B says
Our committee chairperson says we need a structural engineer to inspect and report/re-certify the driveway ramp down to the basement carpark, as it can only hold up to 2.5t and EV’s are 30% heavier than a petrol car.
This is concerning, and such a low weight! Is it a building defect? Our building was only finished in 2017 and is in good condition. How are other schemes approaching their ramp weight limits and is there an official standard or test it needs to meet? Hidden (expensive?) costs to be aware of…
Nikki Jovicic says
Hi Sarah
Thanks for your question. Are you attending the free EV Charging webinar we are holding with Altogether Group tomorrow? It should be a great session and will we try to get to your question during the session’s Q&As. You can find out more and register here: https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/8716793745032/WN_hzC-ughjRdy9MNmwYynPpg
See you there!
Coral says
Hello Nikki, Was this webinar recorded? Are you able to provide a link to view it?
Thanks
Nikki Jovicic says
Hi Coral
Yes, you can watch this recording along with many other here: NSW + QLD: EV Charging and the importance of getting it right
Enjoy!
Peter says
Most EV’s weigh less than 2.5T but a few large high end models with more than 70kw batteries might weigh 2.6T to 2.7T. Hope this helps.
Geoff says
As Phillip notes – nobody in their right mind would refuel an ICE vehicle in an apartment building car park. Most ICE fires happen during refuelling or a crash.
Most EV fires happen during recharging.
The rate of fires in EV to ICE in general is meaningless to the question of should EV charging be allowed, let alone facilitated in apartment complexes.
The consequences of an EV fire are far greater than an ICE fire.
People who buy into the EV fad do so in knowledge of the limitations.
Owners in an apartment complex have no obligation to incur additional risk and costs because of the automotive choices of others.
Peter says
Hi Geoff,
A recent 2023 NRMA report in Australia notes that not a single EV fire in this country has been attributed to EV charging or a vehicle defect, ever. All EV fires were the result of significant impacts or environmental factors such as arson or dwelling fires. An ICE vehicle the report states is 60 times more likely to catch fire than an EV. At least in this country, insurance companies see that EV’s are a lessor risk. You mention refuelling in basement car parks, I wonder how often boats, motorbikes and similar devices have in fact been refuelled in enclosed environments, right mind or not.
Kathryn Forsyth says
Thank you Philip Williams! Reasoned argument – electric is not the panacea.
Peter Campbell says
Re “The following photos of our car parking area says it all.” What the photos show me is:
– the extension cord has been carefully secured to ensure there is no trip hazard in the other parking spaces.
– the cord is a heavy duty type, most likely with conductors capable of handling 15A while actually only being used at 10A.
– the car is being charged via a 10A EVSE charge cord, mostly likely the one supplied by the vehicle manufacturer, which would comply with standards defining a range of safety features that prevent excessive current draw.
– the charge cable has been uncoiled, which is important to avoid risk of over-heating the cord.
– the loops of the charge cable have been positioned to avoid a trip hazard.
If this were happening where I lived, I would not be concerned.
Peter Cavanagh says
This publication is disgracing itself with its support foe EV charging which is expensive and dangerous.
Nikki Jovicic says
Hi Peter
Whether we agree with EV charging in high rise buildings or not, today’s post highlights the fact that residents are charging electric vehicles in QLD body corporate buildings and committees need to be aware of how to facilitate this safely. It is a topic that requires discussion so safe and cost effective solutions can be reached.
Geoff Fraser says
Hi Nikki, I tend to agree with Peter re the perception of enthusiasm from this publication for EV charging in residential complexes. I think a more neutral stance is warranted. The spate of car carrier ship fires and the recent Luton Airport car park fire are instructive and demonstrate the massive destructive potential of EVs regardless of how the fire started (some question as to whether the first car ablaze was a diesel or hybrid). EV battery technology is still dangerously immature and while EV may well be the drivetrain of the future it will almost certainly be with a different battery solution. So on top of carrying the fire risk of charging EVs in the meantime, the current charging technology and infrastructure may well be obsolete in the not too distant future.
David Beale says
Fire and operation legislation is late to catch up with the push from salesman touting a new tech.
Wait and see what requirements on fire suppression come following the first issues before agreeing to having an aluminium cladding or hoverboard debacle.
Spend your body corp money on other obtainable improvements before this.
Btw the petrol car fire vs electric car stat is distorted. There are vastly more and much older petroleum vehicles that cover vastly greater distances so a simple comparison is invalid. Plus lithium ion is self sustaining in runaway and can’t be extinguished by water sprinklers in all our bc garages and has the energy density of an explosive device. Currently GM in the US has told Bolt owners not to park their cars in their garages due to a danger of ignition. Expect more of this as densities, ages, damage manufacturing and operation flaws occur.
Glen Paton (Wing Commander ret'd) says
“The Battery revolution is in my opinion a fleeting phase”. Fortunately, and for some unfortunately, EVs are here to stay. Internal combustion engines are highly complex in comparison to electric motors and batteries. The cost of EVs and batteries will decrease exponentially over the next decade owing to simplicity in manufacture.
The question raised ” I believe our high rise should be getting ahead of the EV charging curve”, is totally correct. Some older BCs will not have the electrical infrastructure to handle high-powered fast charges. However, EV’s can be charged by plugging into a domestic 20 amp power point, depending upon the existing circuit load. The better solution would be a dedicated 30 amp circuit with power point which most older BCs could accommodate; this would provide a little faster charging time that would be adequate for most domestic situations.
Len Chapman says
EVs Batteries are not simpler to manufacture and there is no definite prospect of battery manufacture becoming cheaper given the nature of materials needed. The assumption that slow charging is acceptable is probably wishful thinking given Owners are often reluctant to accept compromise. I live in a 100 Unit complex built over 20years ago so our electrical system is unlikely to cope if every Owner buys an EV. Currently only 3 owners have EVs. With Body Corporate’s permission, they have installed domestic type charging in the car parks supplied from their Lots. Installations were professionally done. Owners bore the cost of installation on the basis of an Owner’s improvement to common property. We are 50% rental. To date we have had two Tenants with EVs. They charged their EVs off site with no complaints. Maybe demand for EV charging will increase. I don’t see any point in being “ahead of the curve” because that may mean wasting Owners’ money if the EV demand does not eventuate as the curve predicts.
Peter Cavanagh says
This answer is nonsense, EVs are very flammable and can not be extinguished by fire suppression systems, an EV fire is likely to take down the whole apartment block, I have built several developments and the upgrade costs for the electricity supply will be massive as you will not only have to upgrade the building but the supply chain.
Peter Campbell says
The capacity of the electrical supply to an apartment block does not need increasing to cope with EV charging so long as charging is well managed. It is explained in the Australian Electric Vehicle Association’s submission on a recent draft update to the National Construction Code
EV charging standards enable networked wall boxes to tell the car how much current it is allowed to take for charging. Let’s say that early in the evening a high proportion of cars have been plugged in to charge. With people cooking and turning on TVs, lights etc., there is little headroom in the building supply so the cars do not charge. Later, people have finished cooking, some have gone to bed early and the building load is well below the building’s supply capacity. The cars are told they can draw just 6A each (1.5kW) and they start trickle charging. Later, some that did not drive far that day will be fully charged and the building load will be lower still as more people go to bed. Then the remaining cars are told they can take 10A (2.3kW) and still we remain within the building’s supply capacity. And so it continues till a minority of cars that drove further that day are still charging in the early morning at 32A (7kW) each.
By the morning all can be fully charged or at least have several hundred km of range added without requiring the building capacity to be any greater than it would have been without car charging. This also benefits the local network capacity and the grid as a whole which has the same concern to move loads off the evening peak as the microcosm of one apartment block.
Philip Williams says
Thank you re the Battery revolution & charging.
A few points:
1) The comparison I believe with the petrol and EV volatility is not valid as I believe they are talking of Charging Vs fuelling….and no-one re-fuels a car in the Body Corp building..
2) As mentioned, the re-charge infrastructure, with batteries such as 100KW is similar to having a current 3.5KW air conditioner on flat out for 6 days…..and that is expected to be done overnight for each apartment?
The Battery revolution is in my opinion a fleeting phase such as steam engine transport that will be rapidly replaced by hydrogen cell vehicles. The clueless statements of people whose awareness is vacant of developments are asserting that Hydrogen is needed to be gained from H2O via electrolysis. This is 19th century tech and once Hydrogen has overtaken Battery within 10 years, the benefits of reduced dangerous chemicals, reduced highly warming methane etc and will make the expense of upgraded electrical grid just another waste of heavy industry activity that in itself is a danger to our climate.
Think about all aspects of impact upon our earth and resist this phase of lunacy.